Category: Let's talk
Ladies and gentlemen, I logged in to the Zone tonight, and went to the boards. Of the two most recent topics, one was about a website called Facebook, and the other was about social orkwardness, something I had never heard of before it was posted about on this site. Both inspired the following petition, which you can all sign by replying to this topic if you want to.
We the visually impaired undersigned, recognise that though some visually impaired people are less perfect than other visually impaired people, all visually impaired people are imperfect. We may be imperfect in different ways, and for different reasons, but we are all imperfect. We realise that all sighted people is imperfect too. Like us, they are imperfect in different ways and for different reasons.
In acceptance of the statements in the above paragraph, we the visually impaired undersigned promis that:
We will not judge visually impaired people because they're visually impaired.
We will not judge visually impaired people more than we judge sighted people.
We will not compare visually impaired people to ourselves or other visually impaired people, because they're visually impaired.
We will not compare ourselves or other visually impaired people to sighted people.
We will not expect or insist that sighted people to know everything there is to know about visually impaired people.
We will not expect or want visually impaired people to behave as if they're representative of all visually impaired people.
We will not scrutinise visually impaired people who are in the public eye, because they're visually impaired.
We will not care about the extent to which visually impaired people we know or don't know are independent.
We will not mind if visually impaired people ask sighted people for help in public.
We will not care about whether other visually impaired people are employed, or make judgements about visually impaired people based on whether or not they're employed.
Senior
What's the point of this? Please, if you want to create a proper petition, at least take the time to use proper grammar.
He's trying to change the world, social structure, and the human way! Thought you could understand this? Lol
Grammar aside, it's an excellent idea. Sure, it won't really do anything in the grand scheme of things, but I think he's brought up some very valid points. I too get frustrated when I see blind/vi people get upset with themselves because they're not perfect, expect other blind/vi people to be or to act a certain way because they're representing all of us and refuse to ask sighted people for assistance, or if they do, bitch and moan about the fact that they were burdening them etc. I see no reason why we should hold ourselves, as a group, to different standards from the rest of the world or why we should feel guilty when we need to ask for help.
Eleni
i'm with scott on this. what's the point?. it's not even a partition, just a topic on the boards.
i'm sure he felt better for saying it. he does make valid points. wish he'd checked his grammar though.
What's wrong with striving to be as good as possible? The reason I actually am doing things with my life is not because I just think everything is ok, and that I should never be judged, but because I set high standards for myself to live up to. Sorry pal, but we live in a society where people compare themselves to one another and that's just how it is. It has nothing to do with having a vision impairment, it has to do with our perspective on one another. And, quite frankly, I do consider myself a much better person if I'm being a productive member of society who works and pays taxes, as opposed to some ass who just sits home and collects money off of the government and plays on the computer 24/7.
Agreed with Scott and others on this. Just the kind of thing I'd expect to see from the original poster. Striving to improve oneself is not about perfection. And I don't agree with people who are content to just live off our government, whether they're blind or sighted. Senior, you put all this in about not being judgmental, and yet you, like everyone who says they don't judge, are one of the harshest judges on the site.
If I'm a good human being, productive etc, it's because I want to be not because I'm competing with anyone else. To be honest, I really don't care what others think of me. In the end, if I don't love myself and if I can't respect and live with my decisions, it doesn't really matter if others think I'm great or love every decision I make. As for judging, I'm not perfect and neither is anyone else. That doesn't mean that I don't judge others. I have my own standards etc. But they have nothing to do with blindness, nor do they change when the person being judged is blind or visually-impaired.
to poste 8, thankyou for saying exactly what I would have in a much less harsh way.
Yeah, talk about a hypocrit. Remember that board topic where he kept making an issue out of everyone's age?
Yes! He appears to be a big time hypocrit! Ugh!
To summarize Senior's so-called "petition": We shall not care. At all. No matter the person or situation, we shall have no judgements, expectations, beliefs, concerns, standards, or hopes for others. Once again, we shall stop caring and act only in concern for ourselves. Period.
i agree with Scott and others. what bullshit! i, like thoes i agree with, don't siton my ass expecting things to just come to me. i work, (i may bitch about my job, but considering it's my job, i have the right to do so), i don't expect the tax payers or the government to pay for me to be able to live, i also don't expect people like guide dogs, or vition Australia (that's the same sort of orginization the NFB or whatever it's called in America is) to have to make life easier for me either. everything i own, my computers, my jaws, things like that, i paid for from my own money, wich i saved up to buy what i want/need to make me a productive person in life. sure, if i need help from a sighted person, i'll ask for it, but i don't play the "poor blindy" card, and i don't think anyone should play that card.
i also care about people, and i don't judge them on if they do or don't have sight. we're all people, and deserve to be treated in the same way we ourselves would like to be treated back. if i don't like someone, it's not because they are or aren't blind/VI or sighted, it's the person's personality or the way they act towards me.
The petition doesn't prohibit signatries making judgements about people. In fact, the second promis acknowledges that we will make judgements about people, so I don't know how anybody reading that petition has reached the conclusion that it forbids all judgement of people. It certainly does not. Nor does the petition say people shouldn't strive to be as good as they can be.
As an imperfect person, I will sometimes make speling mistakes, as will most other people.
we do what we do because we want to be a better person regardless of what is happen. something, sighted can do, so do we, but, most time, we limited ourselves to achive them because we simply give a very valued excuse, "i'm blind therefore..."
if everyone follow what post 1 suggest, the blind/vi society will always about 100 years behind.
if there's no one care about stuff, perhaps, all of us here, won't able to use the computer like a sighted person do.
what post 1 suggest is purely, try to tell the world, hey, this blind society is a bunch of low grated people that rely on government money.
and, don't forget, blind/vi community in the world porpulation is very minor. therefore, no matter what one do, we're be judge by the world. not that anyone will care, but, it will become some sort of stereotype agains blind/vi society just be some things we do, or some sort of comment we made, even, some sort of body action we have like touching things, sniffing things, etc etc.
Season - I fail to understand how you could have reached the conclusions you have reached about the improperly spelt propper petition, in particular this one.
maybe it's not saying that we should tell the world about blind societys, but it is saying that the world oes us because we're blind/VI, and that's not true at all, because it doesn't. i've herd this thousands of times from blind/VI people, "i'm blind, so i should get", or, "i'm blind so i deserve". truth is, we don't "deserve" and we shouldn't just "get", that's just being lazy and making sighted people think that we are poor helpless blind/VI people, who can't fend for ourselves. i like having to work and pay my own way through life, it may be hard, but at the end of the day, i kno i've done something, and that i've shown at least one person that i may be blind, but i'm not helpless, and i can be a productive member of society as a whole, not a productive member of a blind/VI society. it's partitions like this, that make us sound bad, and make sighted people treat us differently, and judge us differently as well. however, if you choose to live in your own little bubble, and not take an active part in your life, and stand on your own 2 feet, then go right ahead.
It's not that I don't care because I think absolutely only about myself, I don't care because in most cases it's most appropriate that I keep my mouth shut and mind my own business.
I don't sign petitions ... but while I make value judgments of myself and perhaps others I come in contact with I find the virtual rubbernecking that we all see positively ridiculous. And yes, that's a judgment call ... What I think about what someone else does probably doesn't matter that much; I just keep workin' keep goin' because the train never stops and the ride is ... interesting ... and as to the whole inspiration / members of the community affecting one another by virtual osmosis or whatever ... well, you pass the same homeless guy on the corner, *on your way to work* , and you see he's still not gotten a job. And while some point their nose at the sky and bay vociferously at the moon because someone doesn't cut their food, they still don't cut it, and you keep right on baying I guess.
So while it does suck that you and I pay for people that don't work, or sometimes come in contact with either a smelly or overly judgmental individual, what're we gonna do?
And, no matter who you are people judge you, some of them who actually know better ... and well, people do what they want so it's all up to you / us / whoever to take them for what they are ... or aren't.
I say just keep rollin', and you may be called a 'super blink' one second and the next be told you're nothin' because you don't do what someone else does ... basically it's all wind, generally broken wind from the ones who are most vociferous ...
Make this petition useful and print it off so you can roll it and smoke it ...
The petition is certainly not saying that the world owes visually impaired people because they're visually impaired, or because of anything else. That interpretation is just as wrong as the interpretation that we should tell the world about blind societies..
I honestly can't believe the amount of wrong interpretations. Read the ten promises. There are no statements about whether blind people should work or not, how independent blind people should be, or how blind people should present themselves to sighted people. I think people are mixing up the petition with their views or the views they oppose.
While I don't see the point of making this a petition, I have to say that the following 2 statements are completely valid:
We will not expect or want visually impaired people to behave as if they're representative of all visually impaired people.
How many times have we seen a sighted person pin an unfair stereotype on us that goes something like this: someone says "Oh, I met this blind person once, and he picked his nose in front of me! I hope all blind people aren't like that." Give me a break. People are always going to be judgmental, that's true, no matter who we are, none of us is perfect. But we do judge, such is life, and human nature. However the idea behind this statement is a good one, because a blind person shouldn't be looked down on just because someone else met another blind person who was less socially acceptable. tIn that case, hat person is being just as much of a hypocrite because they have flaws too, so they really shouldn't pass judgment either.
We will not scrutinise visually impaired people who are in the public eye, because they're visually impaired.
Again, this statement could either help or hinder a blind person. If a newly blind person sees Daredevil for the first time, they might set unrealistic expectations for themselves. Not in the sense that they think of themselves as superheroes, but that they'll be glamorized and adored. They could be let down in that case. They could also think they're invincible to trouble, such as if they were to do an illegal activity they wouldn't be arrested for it because the courts would take pity on them because of their blindness. Well, all one has to do to blow that stereotype out of the water is watch the movie about Ray Charles. But while it's all well and good for me and others to post our opinions here, I can't say that I would sign this as a petition, because it's really not something that we can change--this is a deep-rooted problem in society, and we're not gonna change the majority population's minds about such a non-issue just because we want to. Instead of worrying about how we're perceived by others, why don't you prove to them that you're better than they think you are? Showing confidence is how you make people feel like assholes for thinking negative thoughts about blind people, or any other stereotypes for that matter.
The petition isn't about how sighted people think of blind people. In my opinion, their opinions dramatically vary, and most of the ones I've met treat me as they would anybody else. The petition is aimed at visually impaired people.
To Striker, I would have been very interested to see how you phrased your thoughts. I always enjoy your board posts. And, speaking of phrasing thoughts, thank you poster 13. You put it better than I ever could have.
to the poster of this topic, who are you to say an interpretation is wrong? everyone interprets things in life differently, and this is no exception.
I'm in agreement with those who don't care what others think. as someone above stated, I show others I can pretty much be on par with the rest of the world by being confident and living life the best way I see fit. I don't have to prove anything to anyone other than myself; people either accept me or they don't. I'll still live life to the best of my ability regardless.
I'm so sick of everyone putting down benefits and government help. Yes, it would all be great if we could get decent jobs and if we didn't have to rely on assistance. But it's not like blind people are the only ones who take such assistance. Surely, it's not escaped the attention of these strong opponents that there are many jobs we can't do, not because we want to "sit on our asses" but because our lack of vision prevents us from doing them, or, in some cases, because employers are unwilling to either believe that we can or are unwilling/unable to modify things for us. we're not, for example, having tons of kids just to keep these benefits. They're given to us for a genuine reason. Also, what about those who are newly blinded? They have to cope with losing something which, in many cases, was a vital part of their lives before they lost it. So should we tell them to get over it, hurry up and get a job? Perhaps, we should just leave them in the streets and not help them at all because benefits are a horrible thing. Am I saying we should never try to better ourselves when we can? No, but we should be thankful that these things exist. Just as there are people who fought for our independence, technology, braille literacy etc, there are also people who fought hard for the right for us to have these programs so that we're not kicked out in the street and so that we have food on the table. It's great that some people are able to afford such expensive things as JFW, but when you have a family to support or when your job pays next to nothing and you're living hand to mouth, you can't exactly shell out hundreds of dollars for screen access tech and the like. That's where the programs come in and actually help us to be productive members of society. I don't get why people are so against accepting help when it's given. But all of this is off-topic and I too think that everyone is missing the point of the petition. As Senior said, it's about how we act and how we view ourselves.
Oh, Eleni, please don't mistake me. I am very grateful for the government benefits we get: SSI, SSDI, Food stamps, medical coverage, etc. I am not knocking them at all. I think they do much good, and are important. They do enable us to survive, as we're in school, or looking for employment, and so forth. You are right, discrimination and other such things are alive and well, and it is difficult for us as blind people to find employment.
However, what I am referring to are those who do not even try, who have no desire to make themselves productive members of society, who are simply content to live off those benefits others work so hard to pay for. I personally will be glad to be working again, to be paying into the system that has supported me through many a hard time. I guess that's my thing. If we're going to take from society, I believe we should also give back to it, or at least make the effort to do so.
Ah, I see. That makes sense and I can certainly see your point. But I know there are others who feel the way that I've described and that grates on my nerves. Glad to hear you're not one of them.
Perhaps the view on which you expressed yourself, notwithstanding others instead of front to equip visually impaired people who shall not, under any circumstances blue or otherwise, be judgemental upon those whose grammar and petition making skills be not representative of the blind and/or visually community as a whole shall not view said petition as typifying said petition in any way. Just sign the damn thing since it's got to be intelligent.
This awfully reminds me of our old friend with the horrible grammar and 10 mile long username.
i'm not knocking government benefits either. i'm glad they help us out, but i don't think anyone should just live off them unless their is no other choice. just because we're blind/VI, doesn't mean we absolutely have no other choice but to do that, and not just us, i mean people in general. yes, i work, and i don't want to totally rely on government money, so i didn't stop trying to get a job.
Fighter of Love and light- I know how what I wrote should be interpreted, because I wrote it. It doesn't mention the government. It doesn't say that people should or shouldn't work, or that people should or shouldn't claim benefits. It's very simple and as I said earlier, I believe people have mixed what I wrote up with their own views.
On work/benefits, the petition just says:
You speak of people losing friends. I have many friends who are unemployed. I don't drop someone simply because they don't have a job. And yes, sighted people often do judge one another by whether they are working or not. Rephrase: not so much whether they are, but if they're out of work, if they are trying to find it again. If someone lost their job due to the rcession, they'd no doubt have sympathy from their sighted friends, until that person showed that they were simply content to sit around and live off whatever money they could get. Take the type of sighted people who don't work, don't try to, and yet have 5 and six kids. You don't think the sighted world judges that? They most certainly do.
We as blind people are a cross-section of society, in just about every way, and that includes this one.
Though,I truely believe many a day the origionator of this topic would surve the comunity and the world better if his fingers, vocal cords and reproductive organs were removed and forcibly shoved down his throat, his idiocy, ignerence, opinionatedly hypocritical stance on everything and his proportionally huge flaw of not truely takeing the time to understand people make for some verry useful teaching and educational moments. I guess this proves that even moldy shit stains on lifes rejected thong can serve some perpous...
first off. I wouldn't get mad at those who sit around and don't look for work. I give free will tto everyone, and if that is what they choose to do, so be it. This is why I didn't find octo-mom as displeasing as many in this society did. It was her choice alone, and I respect that, and thus support her because of that. The truth is, homeless people have feelings too - every soul in this universe does. With that regard, I wouldn't care if they had no job/had twelve kids/lived on SSI benefits. You might be saying, "but I work my ass off to have a person sit around and do that?" well consider this: They are human beings, a part of this world, and thus they deserve respect and support just as much as the richest person in this world deserves respect and support. Why put people in this hierarchy? That is so linear...
Call me ignorant, but that's just how my mind and philosophies are.
As for the petition, I respect you Senior, just as I respect the 34 other posts in this topic. I think it has some valid points which could help shift our society to this stage which I am in - this stage of not judging - "We will not care about whether other visually impaired people are employed, or make judgements about visually impaired people based on whether or not they're employed." is something I completely agree with in the philosophical view I described above.
amen to Alicia and Jame's last posts; well said!!
Godzilla-On-Toast wrote:
"It's not that I don't care because I think absolutely only about myself, I don't care because in most cases it's most appropriate that I keep my mouth shut and mind my own business."
I argued the same point of view undder Miss M's Social Q&A board. I noted that one really has no right to criticize or examine total strangers or even people they know unless they want to look like an ass. I would never confront a stranger, blind or otherwise, about their employment or ability to tie their shoes especially without having a relationship with them. I certainly don't disagree with all of Senior's statements in themselves.
But not caring about the employment of visually impaired people? Not hoping for and even expecting independence in those you care about? Not hoping for and having expectations from those visually impaired people in the public eye, especially since many of them are looked upon [rightly or wrongly] as role models by people in the visually impaired community? As evidenced by all ten of his statements combined, Senior doesn't understand there's a line between respectfully keeping your nose in forbidden places and caring about and holding expectations, beliefs, standards, and hopes for others.
Senior wrote:
"I don't know sighted people who go around being bothered about whether every sighted person they know has a job or not. If they were like that, a lot of sighted people would be losing their friends because of the recession."
I don't know where you're from, but the first three questions most people are asked involve some variation of the following:
"What's your name?"
"Where you from?"
"What do you do? (meaning, "Where do you work? / How do you make a living?"
-Brice
I always thought a petition had to be addressed to a specific person regarding a specific issue, demanding a specific action or lack of action.
I might be wrong, English is not my first language, but to me this does not look anything like a petition, more like some sort of a long, rambly statement.
I am afraid I will have to reserve my right to judge or not to judge blind or sighted people and not to judge my friend, blind or sighted, based on their merital status or achievements (or lack thereof) in life. Being a friend is all about being non judgemental and sticking by your friend no matter what. Being a blindy, however, has nothing to do with being non judgemental about other blind people, and I will remain judgemental about people, blind or not, as I see (or do not see of course) fit.
agree on bru and so many other posts.
if we rely on government payment, and think that is what we deserve is very wrong. look at countries don't have such benefit, that doesn't mean that blind/vi people over there can't survive. we, as in western world, have the advantage of government helpings, and often take advantage on those. because of that, we give ourselves alot of excuses, if an employer disregards me, i'll stop looking for job, i can live quite comfortablely with the government helpings. but look at other countries who do not have such helpings, what can those people say? oh, yeah, is okay, if you don't employ me, i'll sit here on the street and sell tissues in order to survive?
because, in lots of time, in western countries, we no need to have such situation where we need to stand on the street and selling tissues, we take things for granted, and think, because i'm blind, there fore, i deserve this and that from our mighty government. no one deserve anything from other people, even from any of the government.
Amen, Brew. And Striker, your post cracked me the fuck up. Thank you.
amen wb; very well said.
As I say he is wishing to change the world, but I do think his post has nice points, but this world will never work that way. Judging is human for some. Now as far as these benefits. I don't think you people that belly ache about them relize how lucky we that work and have jobs are. In America even our gov buys and sets up programs that are not accessible in many job situations. The NFB is in court about this now, and this is a good thing. Even states do this. Face it. We live in a visual world and things are geared this way, so benefits are truly a blessing. I personally believe in giving a disabled person all the help he or she could want. If it's abused, then that is that persons follie. It was posted in other countries benefits are not available, and this is true, but most disabled people live below human conditions, or are supported by family, or mis used. This is sad, but again the human condition. I for one feel blessed to live in a country that cares. Their is plenty of money, goods, food, to give away, so let the needy enjoy it. The poor, disabled, will always be with us. Be kind to them, for you are blessed. I am a blind person, and I make it my business to help any other blind person as much as I can. I'll tie shoes if need be, because I don't know why they can't or have not learned. If I were sighted, or became so I'd make it my business to walk a blind person across a busy street if I were driving and saw them. I'd ask them if they'd like assistants of course, if they say no, then good, if they say yes, better. I am blessed, and feel sharing my blessing is why I was given.
Peace.
you people don't know shit. i don't sit home and collect money because I want to if I don't collect what was given to me after my father died some members of my family will fucking abuse it. So before you go opening up your yap about something that you don't know jack shit about think about those who aren't mooching off the government.
I didn't read all the replies to this post. But it amuses me that the original poster made a lame attempt at what he thought was a serious post, talking about social ORKWARDNESS? LOL
And LMAO at Striker's post!
In response to post 38, those questions are usually asked out of curiocity, and not as part of a character assessment. If somebody replies to the question "what do you do" by saying that they don't work, the response of the person who asked the question won't be to shun the person because they aren't working.
Of course, when sighted people read about people having loads of kids while living off the state and not making the effort to find a job, many are appalled. However, it isn't something they think about as much as some blind people, and they certainly don't judge everybody they know based on whether they're working or not. The outrage is usually a reaction to information they weren't trying to find out, but they were presented with.
Of course, the petition doesn't say anything about being supportive of visually impaired people not working. That is just a conclusion people have reached by mixing their own personal views with what's written in the petition.
Personally, I haven't met every visually impaired person who doesn't worked, or looked into the reasons why all the unemployed visually impaired people are unemployed. I am therefore not able to judge visually impaired people negatively because they don't have a job but that's okay. There are other more enjoyable things I can and will do instead.
Brooke - I haven't spoken about social orkwardness. I don't know what it is. None of the people I've conversed with have ever discussed it with me and I've never overheard people discussing it with each other when I've been in public places. Either people are too frightened to discuss it and discussing social orkwardness in the UK is like criticising the North Korean government in North Korea, or it isn't something people normally discuss.
I can kinda agree with the original post. I understand the concept. My thoughts are 1. judging just gives us too much shit to deal with. 2. some of us cant get jobs because of lack of experience or because we have other problems such as transportation. 3. we all sighted or blind need help sometimes, just ask. 4 not all blind people myself included have a good self-image or self-esteme or self-confidence. 5. some of us have other problems such as mental illness that prevent us from being as independent should we rely on that as a crutch no, however we may have too temporarily. I myself have a home health aid, I would love to get from under that but i have problems and so right now cant. I was homeless, try being homeless for six months its not fuckin pretty I lived in a drug rehab center for 2 or 3 months. Where else could i go? I lived with relatives but it was too much i thought i was putting them out so left. Life may be a walk in the park for some but go through being homeless having a couple mental disorders alcoholism and being sexually assaulted then get rejected for employment based on the fact that you haven't worked. Try that on try living with nightmares and flashbacks try to live and work in a society who doesnt give a fuck about anyone but themselves try it i dare you
That was sort of my point when I posted before. I agree with the basic idea of the original post, but I don't think it's really a petition. Besides, we can't change anyone but ourselves. We can all strive to be less harsh on each other and stop comparing ourselves to other blind people, but in reality everyone passes judgment to one degree or another, it's just human nature. So making a petition out of it is a bit pointless to me.